So, Who Did Discover America?

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Re: So, Who Did Discover America?

Postby UncleRansom » Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:31 pm

MisterD wrote:
UncleRansom wrote:
Crepitus wrote:Intent has nothing to do with it. Columbus was following the money, not the food, but it boils down to the same thing.


Indeed. Upon Columbus' return, the entire world followed the money and empire. Columbus' report shakes the civilized world. His return and report results in the Pope's 'bull decree', the Treaty of Tordesillas, that divides the new world between the two superpowers.

It is the reason Columbus is given credit for discovery in my view. Vikings, Indians, Aztecs, I'm sure cultures previous to Chris discovered into even North America, but they had less impact. Columbus for example the reason Brazil speaks Portuguese, Spain and Portugal 'splitting' the world in two. Colonization endeavors then ignite.


As a matter of Old and New World contact they had no impact at all. You're not merely stating your view. You're stating a fact. That is the reason Columbus is credited with the discovery of America. Columbus' voyages changed the entire world.


Agreed

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Re: So, Who Did Discover America?

Postby Archer » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:40 pm

MisterD wrote:
Archer wrote:I think we can all agree on the facts presented but our disagreement is about how we feel as it relates to what a discovery is.


But what we think of as discovery is irrelevant. It's a question of why Columbus is said to have discovered the Americas. That's not really open to question.


He discovered it for the east! No European at the time had ever seen it and that is why he is credited with discovering inhabited land, a land full of the technological equivalent to cavemen!

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Re: So, Who Did Discover America?

Postby MisterD » Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:31 pm

Archer wrote:
MisterD wrote:
Archer wrote:I think we can all agree on the facts presented but our disagreement is about how we feel as it relates to what a discovery is.


But what we think of as discovery is irrelevant. It's a question of why Columbus is said to have discovered the Americas. That's not really open to question.


He discovered it for the east! No European at the time had ever seen it and that is why he is credited with discovering inhabited land, a land full of the technological equivalent to cavemen!


I wouldn't go as far as that last bit. The civilizations of Mesoamerica were quite sophisticated.

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Re: So, Who Did Discover America?

Postby Peter1469 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:37 pm

Yes, they were pretty advanced in many ways.

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Re: So, Who Did Discover America?

Postby Archer » Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:39 pm

MisterD wrote:
Archer wrote:
MisterD wrote:
But what we think of as discovery is irrelevant. It's a question of why Columbus is said to have discovered the Americas. That's not really open to question.


He discovered it for the east! No European at the time had ever seen it and that is why he is credited with discovering inhabited land, a land full of the technological equivalent to cavemen!


I wouldn't go as far as that last bit. The civilizations of Mesoamerica were quite sophisticated.


Cave men, stone age. Native Americans stone age. This is not a hit on the culture as, in many ways, it was socially and environmentally advanced.

They did not discover many things and no one peoples in the east did either.

They were generally migratory peoples (this does not include the Central and South American tribes and there were advanced stone age societies [we never met the Anasazi but they were pretty advanced]) that followed the food.

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Re: So, Who Did Discover America?

Postby MisterD » Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:11 pm

Archer wrote:
MisterD wrote:
Archer wrote:
He discovered it for the east! No European at the time had ever seen it and that is why he is credited with discovering inhabited land, a land full of the technological equivalent to cavemen!


I wouldn't go as far as that last bit. The civilizations of Mesoamerica were quite sophisticated.


Cave men, stone age. Native Americans stone age. This is not a hit on the culture as, in many ways, it was socially and environmentally advanced.

They did not discover many things and no one peoples in the east did either.

They were generally migratory peoples (this does not include the Central and South American tribes and there were advanced stone age societies [we never met the Anasazi but they were pretty advanced]) that followed the food.


If you don't include the peoples of Central and South America you're not including 90% of the population. I agree with you about the peoples of North America for the most part although the Mississippian culture developed major urban centers but for some reason they collapsed.

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Re: So, Who Did Discover America?

Postby Crepitus » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:32 am

Wow, you guys really want it to be a European thing don't you.

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Re: So, Who Did Discover America?

Postby Archer » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:08 am

Crepitus wrote:Wow, you guys really want it to be a European thing don't you.


No, not at all. I wish my blood line had been able to kick the white man in the ass. Facts are facts though.

The natives wandered here following the food. They moved in they are the original peoples of the Americas (and the blacks I mentioned in a previous post) but...

Who discovered Europe and Asia?

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Re: So, Who Did Discover America?

Postby Peter1469 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:16 pm

I wouldn't get hung up on the word discovery. It is more about global impact. Who opened the America's to the world? Not the Vikings. (I won't go into some of the other theories).

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Re: So, Who Did Discover America?

Postby MisterD » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:43 pm

Peter1469 wrote:I wouldn't get hung up on the word discovery. It is more about global impact. Who opened the America's to the world? Not the Vikings. (I won't go into some of the other theories).


I find it incredible that people do in fact get hung up on the word discovery. As if the tens of millions of people who were already here were looked over so Europeans could say they discovered America. lol Seriously?


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