Anti-Russian Hysteria

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MisterD
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Re: Anti-Russian Hysteria

Postby MisterD » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:08 pm

Ethereal wrote:
MisterD wrote:
Ethereal wrote:
Apologies, I don't follow.


What I mean is that Russia is not some innocent victim of Western aggression. She has always had imperial pretensions and has acted upon them. You could also ask how many times has Russia invaded neighboring states in the last century. Basically, you're attacking one imperialism in favor of another.


No doubt, Russia, like all large nation-states, is predicated upon some measure of imperial ambition, but does that imply an equivalence in terms of degree between western and Russian imperialism? Does that mean both sides are equal in terms of their aggression and expansionism? Granted, that is theoretically possible, but I believe there is ample historical evidence to support the contention that there is a significant asymmetry between western and Russian imperialism, especially since the end of the cold war.


No doubt a triumphant liberalism presents a much greater danger to world peace than a weakened Russia. No argument there but I have heard leftists engage in this sort of thing in the past in response to anti-Russian and anti-communist propaganda. As if the USSR wasn't the heir of Tsarist imperialism and the Bolsheviks were just trying to protect themselves from Western aggression.

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Re: Anti-Russian Hysteria

Postby Archer » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:13 pm

Simply put... The power players, shadow government if you will, thrive on and profit from confrontation, war, sickness, poverty, hate, socialism, everything that is not what we want.

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Re: Anti-Russian Hysteria

Postby Ethereal » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:30 pm

MisterD wrote:
Ethereal wrote:
MisterD wrote:
What I mean is that Russia is not some innocent victim of Western aggression. She has always had imperial pretensions and has acted upon them. You could also ask how many times has Russia invaded neighboring states in the last century. Basically, you're attacking one imperialism in favor of another.


No doubt, Russia, like all large nation-states, is predicated upon some measure of imperial ambition, but does that imply an equivalence in terms of degree between western and Russian imperialism? Does that mean both sides are equal in terms of their aggression and expansionism? Granted, that is theoretically possible, but I believe there is ample historical evidence to support the contention that there is a significant asymmetry between western and Russian imperialism, especially since the end of the cold war.


No doubt a triumphant liberalism presents a much greater danger to world peace than a weakened Russia. No argument there but I have heard leftists engage in this sort of thing in the past in response to anti-Russian and anti-communist propaganda. As if the USSR wasn't the heir of Tsarist imperialism and the Bolsheviks were just trying to protect themselves from Western aggression.


As usual, I object to your use of the term "liberalism" to describe the current political paradigm, especially as it concerns foreign policy, but I understand what you mean when you refer to Russian imperialism. My position should not be taken as an endorsement of it. Rather, it is an objection to the rank hypocrisy that underlies conventional western narratives in regards to Russian imperialism.

"How dare Russia do the exact same things that we have been doing for decades," Exclaims the western politicians and media personalities.

If they are going to object to imperialism, then they ought to start with their own societies and governments instead of looking to the proverbial speck in their brother's eye.

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Re: Anti-Russian Hysteria

Postby MisterD » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:47 pm

Ethereal wrote:
MisterD wrote:
Ethereal wrote:
No doubt, Russia, like all large nation-states, is predicated upon some measure of imperial ambition, but does that imply an equivalence in terms of degree between western and Russian imperialism? Does that mean both sides are equal in terms of their aggression and expansionism? Granted, that is theoretically possible, but I believe there is ample historical evidence to support the contention that there is a significant asymmetry between western and Russian imperialism, especially since the end of the cold war.


No doubt a triumphant liberalism presents a much greater danger to world peace than a weakened Russia. No argument there but I have heard leftists engage in this sort of thing in the past in response to anti-Russian and anti-communist propaganda. As if the USSR wasn't the heir of Tsarist imperialism and the Bolsheviks were just trying to protect themselves from Western aggression.


As usual, I object to your use of the term "liberalism" to describe the current political paradigm, especially as it concerns foreign policy, but I understand what you mean when you refer to Russian imperialism. My position should not be taken as an endorsement of it. Rather, it is an objection to the rank hypocrisy that underlies conventional western narratives in regards to Russian imperialism.

"How dare Russia do the exact same things that we have been doing for decades," Exclaims the western politicians and media personalities.

If they are going to object to imperialism, then they ought to start with their own societies and governments instead of looking to the proverbial speck in their brother's eye.


I don't know what else to call it but liberalism and I think arguing otherwise is ultimately a New True Scotsman. That said, I agree with you 100% that Western critics of Russia (however you want to refer to their ideology) are hypocrites. That's your primary point and I agree with it. I've made it myself several times. I was just pointing out a potential pitfall.


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